“Many” is very important to us. We, the informal workers are many-- 350 million workers, producers and entrepreneurs, over 90%, in the total workforce of India. We are many, but this “many” becomes important when it is an organised number... a big organised number. Let me explain this by going back into the history of SEWA. I remember one of our early meetings, when an old cloth vendor, Chandaben called upon some 100 women like her to get united into an organisation. She said " Why do the police beat us and arrest us? Why do they take bribes?We are not criminals, we are business women! Lets make our own organisation and do some thing about these problems!"

The “many” becomes important when we have a common path, shared goals, values, solidarity, we are moving forward in the same direction. We are strong because we are so many all moving together. In the title of the book what I am trying to say is that we are poor, but the “many” makes a difference because when the “many” unite and move forward together it leads to change, to changing the mainstream.

Why has SEWA remained exclusively for women when poverty and exploitation affect both men and women equally?

Among the poor, women are poorer than the poor men.. Women are also economically more active than the men and amongst the poor all women work otherwise the family can't survive. A woman's income is significant to the family as her income goes almost totally and directly to uplifting the living standard of the family. It goes to Roti, Kpada, Makan. While in the case of men only part of their incomes go to their families. Moreover we observe that about one third of the families are solely supported by the women's income. In spite of working so hard almost from her childhood to her old age, still, her work remains invisible. So SEWA is exclusively for women because women are workers, their income may be tiny, their occupations may be small, or even micro, but women are workers, in their own right. Women are workers, producers, entrepreneurs and that has remained invisible. When we started SEWA the work of women in the informal economy was not recorded, even in country's census, what a big injustice to such a large number of the workers of the country! Women's work has always remained invisible or, rather clubbed with her household activity and working in her spare time adding to the income of the family.

These perceptions also have to be changed - they are workers, they are economically active, they are active contributors to the national income. With all these ideas in mind we had formed SEWA as a labour union. In a labour union the women become members by virtue of their status as workers, and so by becoming a member of SEWA her status as a worker gets confirmed. We organised SEWA as women's union to enhance the women workers visibility and voice.

The word "Self Employed Women" has earned a standing of its own over the years. What was the reason for preferring this word?

Historically and culturally our way of earning our livelihood in India has been that of self-employment. The formal sector where the employee-employer relationship is well defined, is attached to the industrial world and predominantly we are a rural economy. So when we started this union there was no word which described these women workers who did not fall into the employer-employee relationship. They were called "informal", or they were called "marginal", "peripheral", "non-formal" ... such a negative way of describing such a large massive work force of the country. So I said that these unprotected, unrecorded workers are “self-employed”. Part of the time they are working on their own account and rest of the time they work under some employer, some contractor.. Part of the day they work as piece rate worker, and part of the day they go to the market, to sell their produce. This formal - informal is a very artificial divide of the work force .So for the sake of dignity and for reestablishing our own historical culture I preferred to the word self-employed. Of course there have always been many arguments against it. Even when we went to register our union, the Labour Commissioner said, "Where is the employer? Against whom you are going to agitate?" but Union is not always against somebody, workers need to form unions even for their own solidarity. Sometimes, it is difficult to pin point one employer specifically, but such workers are exploited through various systems, like the contract labour system, like artisans are being exploited by the middlemen. There are certain systems, distribution systems, against which we have to agitate and demand our rights as workers, as self employed workers. Therefore the word "self employed”!

How relevant have you found Gandhian ideology for the development of SEWA?

I am a product of the freedom movement of those times when Independence of India was the supreme goal. Our teachers taught us the evils of the foreign rule, our teachers asked us to go to villages, live there, work there. And there was no confusion in our minds, then, what to do in future: reconstruction of India was our future career; and, how to persue the career was clear because Gandhiji had shown us the way, the do's and don’ts. We were lucky. The lessons of trade unionism I learnt in Textile Labour Association founded by Ansuyaben and Gandhiji. His principles of economics were simplicity, non-violence, dignity of labour and human values. His trade unionism method was struggle combined with constructive work i.e. the workers demand their labour rights, and also do constructive activities to build a peaceful nonviolent society. SEWA has striven to follow these principles and values and has been able to stand firm in the labour movement.

At SEWA, much emphasis is laid upon employment and income. Do you think by addressing these two issues, the rest of the issues of the self- employed women in our country can be solved?

We have emphasized employment and earnings because the topmost priority in the lives of the poor is work, productive work, better quality of work, work that helps their earning capabilities. So, organizing around work and income issues becomes important for SEWA. Secondly, economic and social issues are not separate in the case of poor. The poor and especially, poor women, work at the cost of their own health, their children, their safety. So, social security is certainly an economic issue. Work availability, or work mobility cuts across caste, religion, and gender in our society. I see that work security and social security are the two sides of the same coin, totally interrelated.

A woman's employment, her health or her assets, which is the most important in your view and why?

The poor mostly work on manual job for lack of education and modern skills, have to work using the strength of their body. Therefore, we see them suffer from many occupational health hazards. Also the women start aging at an early age; childbirth and maternity are a health hazard for her. Since her work is manual, her most important asset is her own body. This body needs to be protected, maintained, and enhanced through adequate healthcare and nutrition. Moreover, a woman worker is also a mother, a builder of the future generation. Therefore, women’s health is most crucial to the development of our nation.

SEWA has been asked to review several government schemes and projects in the past. Why do you think the government schemes for poverty alleviation or development fail to work as per the plan? How do you believe that poverty would be alleviated?

Poverty can never be removed while the poor remain powerless. The weak get empowered when they get organized. Unions and cooperatives, we have found suitable forms of organisations for the working poor, as these are member-based, democratic in character.

Under the Government poverty alleviation projects, the poor do benefit, but to a limited extent, because they are only ‘beneficiaries’, not participants. When the beneficiaries become not only the users, but also the managers and owners of the poverty alleviation programmes, the poverty removal process starts to happen. In fact, this process in itself is an empowering process therefore it is very important. But I doubt whether any vested interest, or even the Government is able to digest the poor getting empowered, which also means decentralising power and resources both in the hands of the poor and the organisations of the poor.

Poverty must go from our country because poverty is an ongoing violence in society. Poverty and loss of freedom are not separate. Therefore, Gandhiji leading the independence movement talked of political freedom and economic freedom together.

Gandhi has dreamt of self-reliant Indian villages. How would it be possible in your opinion in this age of globalisation?

Yes, for India, it is possible to have non-violent economic reforms. First, reforms need to put poor woman in the centre in any economic reform, especially, in the key areas: basic services, banking, labour, and insurance. Second, recognize ‘work’ as central to any economic reform that addresses poverty. For the poor, work is central to their lives. Third, invest adequately in those initiatives by the poor that have potential to grow. Without sustained resources, small successes will not grow to a viable scale. A certain scale is necessary to enter the mainstream and create a countervailing impact. Fourth, develop and spread social security measures for the poor and women that perform in a holistic way as our economic structures, are closely connected with our social structure. And, fifth, build the poor self employed women’s capacity to enter global markets by building new marketable skills and knowledge, individually as well as institutionally.

In brief, there has to have a total conceptual context in which the institutional changes, investment patterns, mindset changes have to be brought in the economic reforms. The desirable context is decentralisation and self-rule. And the desirable method is non-violent.

SEWA bank has the most impressive loan recovery rate (94%). Do you think the poor are more reliable than those better off? Why?

The poor are reliable, they have always been reliable. They contribute to society and their demands from the society are modest but they suffer from wrong perceptions of the educated middle class, academicians and the policy makers that poor cannot be trusted with money matters. Hence, the poor remained devoid of access to financial services. Though it is slowly changing now, and this is because of the leadership of poor women. It is the poor self-employed women have proved their credit worthiness, not only in SEWA Bank, but all over the world through their village level, small savings and credit groups.

One third of SEWA's urban membership is Muslim. How difficult had it been for the leadership to maintain harmony during the situations of communal tension?

In fact, in SEWA, during difficult times, we come closer with each other and generate more strength. I have seen that the common people in India are non-communal. They are religious, of course, but not communal. The poor understand better the meaning of harmony, as they depend on each other for their daily life and livelihoods. They can’t afford on-going conflicts. Unfortunately they are made easy tools of conflicts by the political and religious vested interests.

In SEWA, the identity of each member is as a worker and a woman. Members work together in the same occupations such as home based production, street vending, and manual labour. They struggle together for economic betterment. In the process, they eat, travel, sing together, and pray together as SEWA members. In fact, how we behave with each other in peacetime is very important in order to stop communal conflicts or recover from them. SEWA women from different religions have made friends with each other and in times of conflict this enables them to play a negotiating role.

How do you think SEWA can inspire development agencies in other parts of the world?

We have to learn more about the experiences and achievements of women workers in other parts of the world and try and build solidarity with them. We must share more about our grass root experiences and learn together how to deal with the constraints, economic, social, and cultural, at the higher levels. I am glad, I could try, through this book, to share what my SEWA sisters would have liked to say to this world.

The world of women you worked all these years was so different from the one in which you were brought up. Did you ever have to make any effort to relate to them, or was it easy from the beginning?

It was not easy. My family or educational background did not help me understand poor, woman self-employed. For example, in the beginning, like any middle-class educated woman I thought that once the poor woman will have a loan facility she will come out of poverty, or that, once she will learn to read and write she will not be exploited by the landlord or contractor or moneylender. How complex is the poverty situation I learnt from SEWA sisters and am still learning and unlearning.

How were the years in the beginning of SEWA? Do you ever regret spending less time with your husband and children because of your commitments towards SEWA?

I have grown slowly, and so has SEWA, therefore in the beginning decades, I had time for children and have enjoyed them. My housework has been kept very simplified, so I had more time for other things. My husband being Gandhian was always dependable for his share of daily house-work. He had full appreciation of my work in SEWA, so he was more than a mere support, he was my friend and mentor...this book is dedicated to him.......

Yes, I did feel sorry that I could have attended more to my family, in the later period when I got extremely busy.

SEWA has successfully broken many conceptual barriers. Which one do you think was the most difficult to battle? Which do you think are still to conquer?

The most difficult has been concept of work! The work SEWA members do, is often not recognized as work, nor is their contribution to the economy measured or appreciated. Because of this, their work needs get disregarded in the economy, and the economic policies tend to exclude them. This battle is still on and keeps me restless.